TV JUNKIES #302

 The West Wing was back! Yay! Have I mentioned how much I adore the character of CJ? Big points for strong female character there - which is always something that gets me in. I still hate Maddy, though (even though I have finally discovered that her name isn't the dreaded Mandy - everyone in the US must have a nasally accent). She's such an annoying character. And her job - a political consultant! It must be the most completely useless job in the entire universe - telling politicians how to play politics without ever actually having done politics *or* being in any way interested in the actual policies/ideals that they hold. Ugh - I have a horrible feeling the only things left after a nuclear holocaust would be cockroaches and political consultants.

Hipsy - the Forest Gardener was lovely on the ABC. Good to see a nature doco that wasn't done by the BBC and isn't narrated by David Attenborough. Much as I love him it's nice to have someone else. A lovely tale about the inter-relatedness of all things and the musky rat-kangaroos are very lovely little creatures indeed.

Amanda S

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The Bill. My son and I gave up watching it some time back. We had hung in the hope that it may become a pale semblance of its former self but we both admitted defeat. I caught the last 5 minutes of the marriage episode, and seeing that hasn't changed my mind

Alan Baker

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Like many of us, I'm sure, I have just returned to work from a much too short break. Thanks to Louise for a) filling in for SAM and b) putting me back on the list.

There really wasn't much on the teev while I was away. Other than videos and the cricket I would say that my highlights were Gormenghast, In The Red, The Science of Secrecy and, of course, Robbie The Reindeer.

The mini series of Gormenghast made a very brave and reasonably successful attempt at bringing the books to screen. Anyone who has read the books will know that the power in them is the language, and that is very difficult to translate from the printed page. Nevertheless they did their best and the result was one of the more watchable offerings in some time. The series stayed remarkably true to Peake's storyline and the performances by most of the cast was excellent. I would make particular mention of Jonathan Rhys-Meyers, who portrayed a suitably villainous Steerpike, Warren Mitchell as Barquentine, Stephen Fry as Bellgrove, Ian Richardson as Lord Groan, Celia Imrie as Lady Groan, June Brown as Nannie Slagg and the always wonderful Richard Griffiths as Swelter. Possibly the only disappointment was the fairly limp performance of the young Titus.

In The Red was a delightful little surprise. A three parter about the serial killing of bank managers mixed with political intrigue at both the BBC and Westminster, it was a wonderful comedy with superb performances, especially from Richard Griffiths (again), Stephen Fry (again) and Warren Clarke, last seen here as Dalziel, the fat controller, in Dalziel and Pascoe.

The ABC continues to get these very well made and quirky little documentary series. The Science of Secrecy is one such documentary. Nikcely made and very interesting viewing.

And then there was Robbie The Reindeer. Great stuff! This is the sort of thing they should be showing at Christmas, rather than tired remakes of Miracle On 34th Street or some sugar syrup with John Denver. I would certainly like it to be repeated - maybe next time I'll think to tape it.

And I will join the chorus of thanks that West Wing has returned after a week's vacation. This show is, if anything, getting even better as we get to know the characters better and they fit into their roles better. I am even used to Rob Lowe now.

Among the videos we caught up with were episodes of The Others and the complete Invasion Earth.

The Others is interesting enough but not exactly compelling. I just find it hard to sympathise with the main characters and that is pretty fatal in watching a continuing series. Plus, the plots are fairly predictable.

Invasion Earth was an interesting idea that never really went anywhere. By half way through you started to wonder how they were going to resolve this. After a while you realised they weren't. All in all an unsatisfactory handling of a quite novel concept that could have worked really well in better hands.

Amongst the things mentioned on TVJ recently is the horrifying news that there could be a ninth series of X Files. Ye gods, don't they have any idea how tired viewers have become of the whole damned thing. Unless the eighth season does something absolutely remarkable then I would predict that the ninth will be watched by three men and a dog - and one of the men will be Chris Carter.

Sally-Ann

Unless you get a better offer, and as thanks for all the times you've loaned me tapes, you can borrow any of the Civil War tapes from me that you need to watch or to dub. We have the whole series recorded from the last time it was on SBS.

Carmel

The young blind man in Butterflies Are Free was one Edward Albert (no relation, so far as I know, to Eddie Albert). Don't know what else he has been in.

Susan

I wouldn't say that I found The Bill boring, but the ghost stories were fairly predictable. This Saturday the guest star is one Brian Murphy, best remembered as George from Man About The House and George and Mildred.

That'll do for now.

Gerald

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I'm so glad I wasn't the only one who didn't enjoy 'The Bill' last night, Susan.

I was going to record it as I haven't watched Saturday's ep yet, but as I wasn't interested in anything else that was on at the same time, I watched it 'live', but ended up wandering about the house doing little bits of tidying etc. - not my usual habit on a Tues evening !

Not my cuppa tea at all.

I don't have much to say about tv that no one else has said - bit of a drought, isn't there?

The odd gem - ah, I've just remembered a programme which has recently returned & as yet unmentioned by a junkie: 'Front Up' - voyeuristic, I grant you, but rather cleverly done, IMO.

Frances.

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SAM - I know why it snowed during The Civil War. It seems ABC was doing work on it's Gore Hill Tower which "may result in some distorted viewing & any inconvenience is regretted". It seems from time to time this yr all the stations will be working on their towers, in all cities, in preparation for digital tv. I don't really understand this because I thought digital tv started on Jan1. Maybe in the next few months/years they will augment their digital tv area/parameters, etc. I feel this may not be making much sense but I had trouble with Ch10 on a day I was home & rang the station & was told this.

Blair - I don't often complain about sport because I have the power to turn off/over & also a huge supply of tapes to view but a couple of Sundays ago, in Brisbane, was a case in point. Sport on the 3 commercial channels from 12 noon to 5pm & sport on ABC following The Civil War to about 5 pm & a few hours of soccor on SBS.

So I watched tapes instead. Could someone pls explain Gormenghast to me? It seemed like 4(?) hrs of very little. I watched it because it was made by the BBC & had some good actors in it. I found it a big yawn. Was it an allegory? If so I think they could have covered it in a 2 1/2 hour movie.

Also, re The BIll. I studpidly, studpidly, stupidly, missed the 2nd part of the Jim Carver story. As alcholics go Jim had a spectacular bottom. As he turned up recently sober at Dave's stag night I assume there was an investigation & he did not after all kill his companion that he woke up next too - trying not to spoil for those who may not have seen it yet. Is he sacked or suspended. It now seems however that Steve Loxton may have a bit of a problem or was that Jim just proselitizing? I found the wedding ep just too soap opera for me. What happened to poor old George?

Susan - I didn't enjoy last nights ghostly ep of The Bill. The opening credits annoyed me. Are British shows now going to have the obligatory Halloween ep just like all the American shows?

Lyn

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Amanda

I thought her name was Mandy too. I'll have to listen more carefully in the future.

Gerald

Thank you - always a pleasure (as long as it's not permanent <ggl>).

As to the X-Files, all the reports I've heard (admittedly from a Scullycentric mailing list) say that while the 8^th season started out reasonable interestingly the more recent episodes are just plain boring.

The quote at the top isn't real (as in actually heard on television) but I haven't heard anything on tv lately that was interesting enough to put up there. Besides, I just love this quote (and it is Star Trek related so it's close enough for jazz J ).

18/1/2001

i turned on the tv last saturday afternoon and all five major channels had @#$%#$ sport

luckily adelaide now have a sixth community access channel that had something mildly interesting

i recommend you give channel 31 a go

who else apart from adelaide has a community channel?

i think brisbane does but not sure of other cities

nicholas

~~~

The West Wing -

For some reason, she is called 'Mandy' even though her name is Madeline. And in case anyone is not aware, The West Wing will not be on next week due to some pyjama-wearing sport-related event. I'm not even sure if it will be on the following week either.

Now that we have finally got to see TWW, I went back to check out the Emmy Awards to see who/what won. The pilot episode won Best Direction for Thomas Schlamme, the Christmas episode (with the homeless veteran) won best wrting and Allison Janney (CJ) and Richard Schiff (Toby) won the Best Supporting Actor awards.

Advance Warning -

This Saturday night 9.30 on SBS is the original French film 'La Femme Nikita'

Martin L

18/1/1

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Gerald, I'd have to agree with you about the X-Files Mind you, I haven't watched it for a few years as I thought it became just a bit too far-fetched and silly when it went on and on abut his sister being abducted by aliens.

Although previous ideas in the show might also have been considered to stretch the bounds of imagination, at least they were conceivably possible. I don't believe in alien abductions - sure, plenty of people believe they have been whisked away by little green men, but it is more likely they were suffering from "waking or paralysis dreams".

Alan, I'm not so fussed about the "new" Bill either - it's not so much that it's "bad", I just found it harder to follow than previously because of higher character turn-over and different kinds of plots.

Didn't watch Ghormenghast, so can't comment - is it something like "Dungeons & Dragons" adventures set in mediaeval times?

I saw some of the 1-day match between Australia and The West Indies last night. Although Brian Lara of the 'Windies put on a courageous performance, including two sixes and lots of fours, heavy rain stopped play, and the result was decided by a calculation of comparative run rates, in favour of Australia. This is the first time in a long while that the 'Windies team has put up much of a fight against Australia's side.

Win has picked up their game a little bit and started a documentary called 'What Went Wrong" about various disasters. Not that this is really top viewing, but it certainly beats lame sitcoms such as "Jack & Jill". This pair could have done everybody a favour and got marooned on a remote island somewhere.

Carmel.

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18/1/2001

Nicholas

When I was visiting Melbourne in the early 90's they had a community channel which only seemed to show trot races. I don't know if it still exists these days. We had one in the Newcastle area years ago but they only showed what looked like holiday videos of families having barbecues and social outings.

If anyone likes Irish movies there's a goodie on 10 on Sunday night called The Boxer.

Tony W

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There was some kind of awards show on the TV the other night - I hope Britney Spears didn't win anything.

Carmel.

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Correct me if I am wrong, Carmel, but you said that you had not even watched a full episode of Jack & Jill, you were just going by a review in your local paper. If this is so, why do you feel the need to heap abuse on it at every opportunity? The TV pickings are slim this time of year, and I find it quite a pleasant way to pass an hour in the evening, thanks very much. I think we all get the idea by now of what your opinion of it is.

Jacki

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nicholas

Perth has Ch 31 as well. My Brit-in-exile husband watches the BBC news at 5.30

Geraldine

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Nicholas,

Sydney does indeed have a community access Channel 31. But if, like me, you live more than 10 feet from the transmitter, it is very hard to pick up. Occasionally, the picture and sound are good enough to actually make out what is happening, but most of the time (when I've tried), there is more distortion than all the TV station digital shenanigans put together. Hmmm, I wonder if 31 is going digital?

Gormenghast. Well it was OK, but I hoping for more (haven't read the books so can't comment on how true to the story it was). Agree Stephen Fry's character was one of the shining lights.

Tony.

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19/1/2001

Bris 31 is quite well-known, and has a good signal. It does show a bit of harness racing, but it also has some excellent niche programs. It has a motorbike show which is highly thought of, and of course we have Tamara Tonite, the transvestite who ran for Lord Mayor of Brisbane.

They also show a lot of old movies. When I say old, I mean OLD. 20's and 30's silent classics and the like. I believe that there is some sort of copyright/licensing laws that state that movies over a certain age become public property. I think this is how Bris31 can afford them.

Robert Light

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Lyn - while I hate to say this, I think you really needed to have read the books to have understood Gormenghast. Mainly because you needed the depth of info that you received in the books about the rituals and the circumspection of life in Gormenghast that you just couldn't put in a mini-series. Without that background the TV show degenerates into something long, pretty and empty. Actually, I'm currently in the middle of reading the Prunesquallor's party scene in Gormenghast and I keep giggling as I picture Stephen Fry as Bellgrove - he was definitely inspired casting!

That 70s Show - the Star Wars special version was an absolute hoot. Giggled insanely at the discussion about fighting techniques that included such advice as "Hit him with a banjo", "Where's he going to get a banjo?" and "Hit him in the groin with a banjo - that'll take him down". The script writers are wonderful on that show - ditto the actors - I have a feeling that filming the banjo scene would have had many takes before they could do it with straight faces.

FAQ last night had an interesting discussion on mind control techniques. Adam Spencer asked the neuropsychologist if he (Max) could control Adam's mind. So Max asked for the name of an American State that started with A and Adam said Alabama. Max said - I asked you a question, you had to use your brain in a certain way to get the answer so therefore I controlled your mind for that period of time. Kind of a freaky thought, that one. I also wonder what class of hypnotisability we all fall in - apparently you can range from unhypnotisable to what they call virtuoso where the hypnotist can even make you think you belong to the opposite gender. I think I fall in unhypnotisable - I'm so resistant to the thought of being "out of control" that I couldn't relax enough to be a decent subject.

Amanda S

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Jacki, you'd note that I said the show was poor, and I have just as much right to express this opinion as you have to say "Jack & Jill" is the best thing since sliced bread. For your information, I did see some of the show but soon turned off in disgust as it was not my cup of tea at all. This was before I read the 2nd review in the paper, by the way. I think the 1st one damned the show with faint praise. Sure, you can't just rely on the word of reviewers, but these people are regular contributors to the paper, and I usually find they're pretty spot-on with their comments.

The problem I see with shows of this type is that they portray shallow, obnoxious and vapid people with pointless and aimless lives - I suppose I should really feel sorry for them but this kind of person annoys me very much so that is why I can't watch for long. "Friends", "Two Girls and a Pizza" and quite a few others have similar characters, but at least with "Friends" and even "Sex In The City", I can have a laugh here and there.

I read yesterday that the producer of "Fiends" is making episodes longer in order to compete with "Survivor" on another channel. Apparently, in the USA, "Survivor" is rating through the roof. Not that I'm a big fan of "Survivor", but I do think "Friends" is getting a bit old now as it has been around for years and they must be running out of jokes by now.

The relative drought in TV viewing at the moment is sure to break soon and I will be interested to see if shows such as "Malcolm In The Middle" live up to their previews. I do bring up topics and shows but hardly anybody comments unless I say something bad about one of the programmes.

Carmel.

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It looks like almost every capital has Channel 31.

Yes it used to show the trots in Melbourne - still might on some nights....

Optus rebroadcasts it here so I get a perfect picture. :-)

Alan

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19/1/2001

I think "Imparja" of NT is probably a community station, too.

There's often some interesting shows on SBS, and sometimes on the ABC.

I wish I could wax eloquent about some show I saw but sadly, I haven't seen too much to be enthused about lately - it's mostly been the same old stuff.

The new series of "Survivor" was filmed in the wilds of North Queensland. I didn't see the first episodes of the last series so didn't fully understand what was going in. The whole exercise seems a bit pointless to me, but it still makes interesting viewing.

Is "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" going to be on this year. Personally, of the two versions, I preferred Frank Warwick's as it was less drawn out than the other, and therefore more exciting.

You can see I am grasping at straws here - the truth is, I haven't watched very much telly at all in the last couple of months.

Carmel.

PS. Jacki, if you say "correct me if I'm wrong", that is leaving yourself very open to retaliation as of course, the other person is going to say that you are in error (more accurately, they will attempt to refute your previous statement - it would not be meant as a personal attack). If you just said, "well, that's what I think, anyway", they're more likely to leave it at that.

~~~

Carmel - "The problem I see with shows of this type is that they portray shallow, obnoxious and vapid people with pointless and aimless lives"

Shows of what type? Shows of the type you don't like perhaps?

So what if the characters in 'them' are shallow, obnoxious and vapid with pointless and aimless lives. (A) That sounds a lot like me -- which could by why I watch TV a lot. (B) It's only television, they don't really exist. (C) It's not like you are going to elect them to run the country -- although a lot of politicians could be said to shallow, obnoxious and vapid as well. (D) YOU DON'T HAVE TO WATCH IT!

An old desk-top calendar has the quote "Television is an invention that permits you to be entertained in your living room by people you wouldn't have in your home". I think that sums it up.

Martin L

19/1/1

P.S. I could point out that there is no show called "Sex In the City", but then that would be obnoxious, so I won't.

~~~

Thanks Amanda - now I understand. I totally agree - long, pretty & empty. The reason I was puzzled was I was looking for something more & thought I must have missed something.

Lyn

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Carmel, I agree with you about vapid shows, I wrote to a TV station once about this, which was pretty intellectually arrogant of me, one might suppose, and their written reply was that I fall into a minority viewing bracket (with the shows I complained they never put on) and that all the shows I whingelisted are actually popular with the majority; and too bad for me.

One might wonder where the intellectual viewing capabilities of the western world is heading, but then, on the other hand, science shows, and things like FAQ, actually rate very well consistently. So then one might pose that MOST people watch just about everything, including sport, ugh; and another smaller percentage will only watch a certain subgrouping and loathe and despise everything else. I know I fall into that category!

I hate the lightweight sitcom things that others watch just to enjoy and unwind, I cant bear them, they wind me into a frenzy of twitchiness at their stupidity and shallowness. (plus the fact that they never seem to work, but have amazing cars, apartments and wardrobes). So I have learnt to avoid them, and just turn the TV on when there is something that I know will be more my style. Then of course, you hate to miss something. C'est la vie, I guess, or one size doesnt fit all, is the rule.

I particularly love the sociologists take on the type of shows on American TV particularly, that is a cross over to certain types of science fiction - if you find a formula for a certain type of weakminded show that is just enjoyable entertainment, but doesnt require any exercise of the brain cells, then you repeat this ad nauseum as it actually gives you control over the population; as if the masses are involved in the latest soapie, they arent going to be out there worrying over social issues, and getting hot under the collar at the world's injustices and rioting in the streets, as their minds are safely cottonwoolled with trivia. I think that we partly are applying this principle, sadly.

Its exactly the principle applied by the Romans with the colosseum games, and also why many govts round the world crack down so hard on university students, and in govt takeovers the universities are always one thing to get closed down. One wonders how many more people might have voted in the USA if they had turned off all the sitcoms for one or two weeks, scary, eh!

Sorry for the long post. I know that not all will agree with my views, so rebuttals not required, its a view, thats all. And Carmel, I put up ideas too, no-one takes up on, dont fret.

Leonie

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Carmel: I am not attacking your right to say whatever you like about shows, I am just asking if you could say your piece and then leave it alone. It gets very annoying when people harp on and on about something and ram their opinions down others' throats repeatedly. I can count at least three occasions now where you have said you think Jack & Jill is a load of garbage, and the final straw was when you said "Not that this is really top viewing, but it certainly beats lame sitcoms such as "Jack & Jill". " That was just plain unnecessary in my opinion. This is the reason why I often don't own up to what I watch and don't contribute to TVJ anymore. I am sure that there are more (silent) people on this list that enjoy a bit of escapist garbage on TV than like the D&M TV you prefer, though.

Jacki

 +Good morning all J

It is yet another Monday morning and since I didn't win Lotto on the weekend I am here yet again. <sigh>

But at least I am in good company J

We have a pretty balanced set of contributions this morning which is a good thing. However, I think (Louise puts on her List Administrator hat on) that it might be wise if everyone remembers that this is a friendly discussion list and to be careful in how we express our opinions - especially when we feel passionately about something. It is so easy to get carried away.

In the current discussion I must say that I fall somewhere in the middle. I like some of the sitcoms (American or otherwise) at least until they run out of ideas J It seems to me that many of them start out quite witty and then degenerate into the old standby of "it's always funny to make a fool out of someone" or "stupidity is such a giggle". Something with which I violently disagree. There are some 'soapie' type shows out there that I enjoy but 'Jack & Jill' isn't one of them. I just couldn't care for the characters at all - I thought they were vapid and shallow <g>. It's not the shallow that bothers me, it's the vapid. I can't stand being bored.

February is fast approaching and that means less sport (yay) and more of our old favourites. I think we are all suffering withrawal symptoms from our favourite shows but it's only a couple more weeks and we will all have something new to talk about. J

Louise

22/1/2001

Leonie, very well put. I coudn't agree more with your last comments. I am certainly not suggesting that all sit-coms are rubbish, but there has been an alarming tendency in recent years for sitcoms to portray people in the prime of life who have too much money and not enough sense. They are so swaddled in their economic security that they have little time to make a real difference to society and do something useful with their lives.

Like you, I'm concerned about the amount of apathy in our society towards real social issues and agree with your remark about "bread and circuses" being used to entertain and numb the critical faculties of the masses. Not too many people seem to see the inherent dangers of such an approach.

Jacki, what I've said is ONLY an opinion. As such, why let it bother you? If you like watching particular shows, that is your prerogative, but if you go on about how wonderful they are, you need to be aware that some others will not agree. Do you mean that only positive views of shows should be aired in this forum? That is a very picayune outlook on "TV Junkies", if it is true.

By getting defensive, that means you take my criticisms personally, which is not what I intend at all.

Martin, I was not suggesting that I would never want to watch a show with "obnoxious and shallow" characters. Some of them are "Obnoxious and/or shallow" in very funny ways but in the series I mentioned, they don't in my opinion, even have the redeeming feature of being able to raise a chuckle.

I'm not trying to ram my views down anyone's throat - anyone is perfectly free to disagree but they must expect me to refute their refutations on some occasions.

Has anybody seen "Trauma" on Discovery Channel on Friday nights? It gives a rundown on the operations of a large trauma centre in the USA and includes interviews with trauma staff as to how they see their jobs and contributions to society. Instead of the bed-hopping and interpersonal politicking of the fictional hospital series, the doctors listen to rock music, skate, and read in their spare time.

Carmel.

~~~

Gormenghast

Elsewhere I designated Gormenghast Gormenghastly. Before it came on, I was quite excited as, many, many moons ago I had read and (I thought) enjoyed part of Titus Groan (middle book?) while staying in someone's house. I should have asked myself why I didn't then seek out the other books. I think now I was overhasty with the 'Gormenghastly' comment as it certainly did depict a rich tapestry of characters and locations. I also 'got' the excessive ritual angle. It was, however, definitely one of those things where you needed to have read the book first. Conventional 'plot' was lacking. Marvellous cast though. Love Stephen Fry in all his incarnations. I've got him reading Harry Potter. He writes bl**dy well too.

The Lord of the Rings movies are going to be like that too, I think. Nothing wrong with its plotting, mind you, but you're going to miss a lot of subtext if you haven't read the books.

Yankee Sitcoms

You're looking at the outcast who couldn't see humour in Seinfeld when it first came out - and still can't. The people and premise just seem 'nasty' to me. Selfish and self-centred. So I avoid that sort of thing as a general rule. Otoh, you are also regarding before you the original Teletubbies fan. See, Jackie, I have no shame. Let 'em all have a go at me:) Pointless and vapid? Moi?

I wish I'd been quicker off the mark recommending 'Four Fathers' on the ABC on Friday nights. Unfortunately, I think it has only two eps to go (out of four). A bit of a gem in these dearthly times, drama-wise.

Jude

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I completely and utterly agree with you with regards to Seinfeld, Jude. I tried, I really tried. I've watched quite a number of episodes in order to try and see what everyone thought was so funny. I never managed to watch any of them to the end.

I shall also confess to feeling the same way about the Simpsons. I found the funniest thing about them was the opening credits. J

Louise

22/1/2001